I would like to envision, with your input, possible "initiation ceremonies" for those who are labeled crazy amongst us, and usually encouraged or coerced to seek so-called "professional help". The more creative your vision, the better. The more outlandish, the more possibly inspiring, brainstorm-style!
i got this particular idea after reading the following:
"Instead of the degradation ceremonial of psychiatric examination, diagnosis and prognostication, we need, for those who are ready for it (in psychiatric terminology, often those who are about to go into a schizophrenic breakdown), an initiation ceremonial, through which the person will be guided with full social encouragement and sanction into inner space and time, by people who have been there and back again. Psychiatrically, this would appear as ex-patients helping future patients to go mad."
from:
www.laingsociety.org/colloqu...vine.htm
There is some really good reading here. Here are some excerpts for the expected skeptics to think about:
"In the opinion of Dr. Thomas Szasz, psychiatry may be the new secular religion in an age of pseudo-science:
"The discerning reader may detect a faint note of familiarity here. Modern psychiatric ideology is an adaptation-to a scientific age-of the traditional ideology of Christian theology. Instead of being born into sin, man is born into sickness. Instead of life being a vale of tears, it is a vale of diseases. And, as in his journey from the cradle to the grave man was formerly guided by the priest, so now he is guided by the physician. In short, whereas in the Age of Faith the ideology was Christian, the technology clerical, and the expert priestly; in the Age of Madness the ideology is medical, the technology clinical, and the expert psychiatric.
"Thus psychiatry, like the nuclear family, becomes an instrumental motive force in the creation of the total social institution; through a process of mystification, both define normality and mould the individual into the one-dimensional shape of social utility. Laing calls this mystification a political act of "violence masquerading as love". "
and:
"'From the moment of birth, when the Stone Age baby confronts the twentiety-century mother, the baby is subjected to these forces of violence, called love, as its mother and father, and their parents and their parents before them, have been. These forces are mainly concerned with destroying most of its potentialities, and on the whole this enterprise is successful. By the time the new human being is fifteen or so, we are left with a being like ourselves, a half-crazed creature more or less adjusted to a mad world. This is normality in our present age.'
"Some people can adapt to this system. We call them normal. "Society highly values its normal man. It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal," Laing tells us. "Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years." But some cannot adapt to this imposed normality. They break down. Instead, they devise a strategy to deal with their inability to hold their invalidated experience ant their sense of themselves together. As Laing puts it, "it seem to us that without exception the experience and behaviour that gets labeled schizophrenic is a special strategy that a person invents in order to live in an unlivable situation".
"Though, in [David] Cooper's phrase, the schizophrenic may look like someone whose "logic" is "ill", he is, in reality, someone, who has been made an invalid because his experience has been invalidated. For Laing and Cooper, schizophrenia is no 'something happening in a person but rather something between persons". Thus when one psychiatrist calls schizophrenia "a failure of human adaptation", Laing responds that it may as well be "a successful attempt not to adapt to pseudo-social realities". It all seems to be a matte of perspective: "Schizophrenia is a label affixed by some people to others in situations where an interpersonal disjunction of a particular kind is occurring. This is the nearest one can get at the moment to something like an 'objective' statement, so called."
"The validity of a definition is ultimately determined by the identity of the one who is defining. It is in this context that Laing argues: "There is no such 'condition' a 'schizophrenia,' but the label is a social fact and the social fact a political event." Seen from this radical perspective, all our definitions may have to be turned upside down ant inside out. "What we call 'normal' is", according to Laing "a product of repression, denial, splitting, projection, introjection and other forms. of destructive action on experience.... It is radically estranged from the structure of being." No wonder, then, that "the condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man." On the other hand schizophrenia may be seen as an alienation from this alienation, where, "even through his profound wretchedness and disintegration", the patient may be "the hierophant of the sacred". Finally, "madness need not be all breakdown. It may also be break-through. It is potential liberation and renewal as well as enslavement and existential death."
"In _The Politics of Experience_, Laing describes how, in some instances, breakdown does become break-through; transforming the "schizophrenic experience" into a "transcendental experience". As depicted by Gregory Bateson, the schizophrenic embarks upon a voyage from the "outer" world of the "ego" to the "inner" world of the "self" -and back out again. He regards it as an archetypal journey that bears a close resemblance to descriptions of religious experience:
"It would appear that once precipitated into psychosis the patient has a course to run. He is, as it were, embarked upon a voyage of discovery which is only completed by his return to the normal world, to which he comes back with insights different from those of the inhabitants who never embarked on such a voyage."
i got this particular idea after reading the following:
"Instead of the degradation ceremonial of psychiatric examination, diagnosis and prognostication, we need, for those who are ready for it (in psychiatric terminology, often those who are about to go into a schizophrenic breakdown), an initiation ceremonial, through which the person will be guided with full social encouragement and sanction into inner space and time, by people who have been there and back again. Psychiatrically, this would appear as ex-patients helping future patients to go mad."
from:
www.laingsociety.org/colloqu...vine.htm
There is some really good reading here. Here are some excerpts for the expected skeptics to think about:
"In the opinion of Dr. Thomas Szasz, psychiatry may be the new secular religion in an age of pseudo-science:
"The discerning reader may detect a faint note of familiarity here. Modern psychiatric ideology is an adaptation-to a scientific age-of the traditional ideology of Christian theology. Instead of being born into sin, man is born into sickness. Instead of life being a vale of tears, it is a vale of diseases. And, as in his journey from the cradle to the grave man was formerly guided by the priest, so now he is guided by the physician. In short, whereas in the Age of Faith the ideology was Christian, the technology clerical, and the expert priestly; in the Age of Madness the ideology is medical, the technology clinical, and the expert psychiatric.
"Thus psychiatry, like the nuclear family, becomes an instrumental motive force in the creation of the total social institution; through a process of mystification, both define normality and mould the individual into the one-dimensional shape of social utility. Laing calls this mystification a political act of "violence masquerading as love". "
and:
"'From the moment of birth, when the Stone Age baby confronts the twentiety-century mother, the baby is subjected to these forces of violence, called love, as its mother and father, and their parents and their parents before them, have been. These forces are mainly concerned with destroying most of its potentialities, and on the whole this enterprise is successful. By the time the new human being is fifteen or so, we are left with a being like ourselves, a half-crazed creature more or less adjusted to a mad world. This is normality in our present age.'
"Some people can adapt to this system. We call them normal. "Society highly values its normal man. It educates children to lose themselves and to become absurd, and thus to be normal," Laing tells us. "Normal men have killed perhaps 100,000,000 of their fellow normal men in the last fifty years." But some cannot adapt to this imposed normality. They break down. Instead, they devise a strategy to deal with their inability to hold their invalidated experience ant their sense of themselves together. As Laing puts it, "it seem to us that without exception the experience and behaviour that gets labeled schizophrenic is a special strategy that a person invents in order to live in an unlivable situation".
"Though, in [David] Cooper's phrase, the schizophrenic may look like someone whose "logic" is "ill", he is, in reality, someone, who has been made an invalid because his experience has been invalidated. For Laing and Cooper, schizophrenia is no 'something happening in a person but rather something between persons". Thus when one psychiatrist calls schizophrenia "a failure of human adaptation", Laing responds that it may as well be "a successful attempt not to adapt to pseudo-social realities". It all seems to be a matte of perspective: "Schizophrenia is a label affixed by some people to others in situations where an interpersonal disjunction of a particular kind is occurring. This is the nearest one can get at the moment to something like an 'objective' statement, so called."
"The validity of a definition is ultimately determined by the identity of the one who is defining. It is in this context that Laing argues: "There is no such 'condition' a 'schizophrenia,' but the label is a social fact and the social fact a political event." Seen from this radical perspective, all our definitions may have to be turned upside down ant inside out. "What we call 'normal' is", according to Laing "a product of repression, denial, splitting, projection, introjection and other forms. of destructive action on experience.... It is radically estranged from the structure of being." No wonder, then, that "the condition of alienation, of being asleep, of being unconscious, of being out of one's mind, is the condition of the normal man." On the other hand schizophrenia may be seen as an alienation from this alienation, where, "even through his profound wretchedness and disintegration", the patient may be "the hierophant of the sacred". Finally, "madness need not be all breakdown. It may also be break-through. It is potential liberation and renewal as well as enslavement and existential death."
"In _The Politics of Experience_, Laing describes how, in some instances, breakdown does become break-through; transforming the "schizophrenic experience" into a "transcendental experience". As depicted by Gregory Bateson, the schizophrenic embarks upon a voyage from the "outer" world of the "ego" to the "inner" world of the "self" -and back out again. He regards it as an archetypal journey that bears a close resemblance to descriptions of religious experience:
"It would appear that once precipitated into psychosis the patient has a course to run. He is, as it were, embarked upon a voyage of discovery which is only completed by his return to the normal world, to which he comes back with insights different from those of the inhabitants who never embarked on such a voyage."
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Sun, October 28, 2007 - 10:22 AMwow, I hope to hear more from oothers on this
I have to comment I think your post has some very important issues, though would not saying agree with everything but important for our ever-changing conscious-emerging society..... The labels are actually applied by virture of a set of symptoms and then often used proscriptively as if this is the defining reality of the person.... so yeah, and I've seen multiple changed diagnosis on popele, people who in my opion never desplayed, oh and the catch all this day and age, "Schizo-Affective D/O"... It is easier to diagnois, label than listen.......
Just my experience, understanding can only write from that, but 22 years working with people from labels of chronic mentally ill and homelss all the way up, some of those so labeled are some of the wisest and most truth-bearing.... just turned inward.... often, in my experience, like you said, or quoted, invalidated.....
Understanding what you wrote or quoted,
".....Though, in [David] Cooper's phrase, the schizophrenic may look like someone whose "logic" is "ill", he is, in reality, someone, who has been made an invalid because his experience has been invalidated. For Laing and Cooper, schizophrenia is no 'something happening in a person but rather something between persons". Thus when one psychiatrist calls schizophrenia "a failure of human adaptation", Laing responds that it may as well be....."
beautiful...... something betwen persons....... we are all connected..... we are, in fact, at all times, in relation to each other, to ourselves and the world..... and when that perceptive subjective reality whichis the reality we all operate from, is invalidated, wounded, even violated in being abused............. well.........
another.... "....Instead of life being a vale of tears, it is a vale of diseases....."
yeah......
..........................
and why is it we call the conditions such decribed as "mental Illness" when the manual not only decribes in the medical model bio-physicological gentically inherited ilness such as Schizophrenia and Bi-Polar disease, yet Dissociative Disorder has 0 correlation and never been considered a gentically -passed condition? In fact, Dissociative D/0 , to the degree, is actually a COPING that continues as the what it is coping with is still left unhealed, invalidated in the deep recesses where spirit, very essence of the person ......
In fact Depression also is a coping skill, jsut truned inward.....
there's a lot .......
thank you for your briging up for dialogue............ I stay our of wther something is or is not a pseudo science or religion or whatever, not saying the point are or are not...... that not as important to me as the people...... and seeing and hearing them......
i stay away from the term schizohrinics.... I learned valuable life wholeness lessons from people labeled with schizophrenia...... and then labeled with..... personally, I just label them theier name..... a ritual.... a ritual of wholeness and beatuty.....
Rituals.... good point....... there are some informally......
wonderful institute in Santa Fe that for years studied and looks at the high correlation between creativity and what some call madness... this has been an area I've been looking at for a long time with clearer and clearer eyes........
we are all beautiful gifts in this world......
there are no throw away, diseased "useless" people..... we are a society of a "vale of tears".... beautiful......... -
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 9:28 PMRight On!!!!.... -
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Tue, October 30, 2007 - 9:30 PMDouble right on!...
> "s/he comes back with insights different from those of the inhabitants who never embarked on such a voyage." -
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Wed, October 31, 2007 - 10:18 AMso speaking of visions, wouldn't it be amazing to live in a world where we don't put people down who or tret them as less capable/ competent when they are depresed or they feel less than of hurt or wounded.... who need help negotiating.... who struggle because they never realized the the wounding were lies..... they were never suppose to be perfect.... and they are gifts..
and they contribute....
and they teach me, us how to be more human with them...... more real......
they teach that cars and money doesn't matter....
No soul left behind........................................
like Cosmic started this thread...... initiation cermeonies that call attention to the fact how amazing we are.............. even when we are hurting...
there are re-birthing ceremonies that in the beginning of the idea was a little extreme, but now, take the form and shape of many rituals that "initiate".....
a Life of Significance..........
what if, infact, we are here in this world, not just by cosmic partiuclate colliding, but Universal grand design, life how Granmither Earth and Grandfather Sky and all its inhabitants work in balance...... each a place and a space.... each a glorious part of ... and without wich something else is affec ted........
How amazing is this human being totality..... and instead of calling it a sickness, realizing its something out of balance,........
maybe that something and that it being our of baance is telling us to pay attention.... nurture and cradle own spirit, and each other...
understand and not impose.... celebrate instead of denegrate......
learn from instead of tell.... compete with ourselves in leanring who we are.... streatching, risking, going beyond.... exploring.... instead of competing with others to prove we are....
what if we are hear to not get "ahead", in front of, but walk side by side....... to be hear and not just here......
what if it's to surrender to trying to be someone... and realize we are someone.......
what if ............
no soul left behind............
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 3:45 PMThank you for posting this. Makes sense to me, I hope it helps people. -
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Re: an initiation ceremony for the crazed and channelling
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 5:51 PMthanks for keep bumping it.....
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